In AAT typography of XB Zar, I have implemented an option for special behavior of old Turkish (Ottoman) Gaf.
I'd appreciate any feedback about how correctly it performs.
behnam, i don't know turkish (wish i did) but i do have a turkish friend that might be able to help. he is not a mac user so i do have to take my mac to him. stay tuned.
good day,
armeen
Behnam Wrote:In AAT typography of XB Zar, I have implemented an option for special behavior of old Turkish (Ottoman) Gaf.
I'd appreciate any feedback about how correctly it performs.
Well, essentially, from what I understood from this page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Turkish_alphabet
I implemented an option in which initial and medial forms of Gaf take the shape of Kaf. Meaning only one stroke. I just don't know if I well understood the concept.
dear behnam, this might be disappointing but my friend doesn't know the ottoman turkish. in fact, he mentioned to me that it might be challenging to find someone who still knows ottoman turkish. i'm still keeping my eyes open :)
Oh don't worry Armeen. This is a writing abandoned by Turkish four or five generations ago and it's only a matter of interest for linguists and historians. So it's not surprising that it's not known. I posted this question here for posterity! If anyone came to enlighten us, I'd appreciate it. If not, I go with what I implemented.
My concern is just a matter of accuracy. I claimed that my fonts support Ottoman Turkish, so it should do it, no matter if anybody uses it or not.
another suggestion i have is to contact a university that has a large literature department. they might have a faculty who knows ottoman or perhaps they can put you on the right direction of finding some one. just putting my two cents together :)
Oh I wouldn't go that far. I implemented it by the request of a linguist to begin with. Then I told him it was implemented and it's better to check it out. He didn't reply since!
I don't get involve with linguists anymore. They are trouble!
Selam Behnam!
If you are able to create a fully functional Ottoman font, I would use it to transcribe texts that I'm interested in. Also, I think that the Osmanlica font is the same as that used for Azeri in Iran, so it does have pertinent contemporary use. I have had enormous trouble finding the letter "nef" or "sağır kef" that I can use with standard Farsi font. It is basically a kaf with three dots over top. If I understand correctly, this letter is pronounced "ng" in Azeri. The mac azeri keyboard is only for the latin alphabet used in the Azeri republic, not the Arabic-based script. Other Turkic alphabets such as Uzbek do not appear to have this.
This is the only finial form currently available through the Mac Character Palette
You can find the initial, medial, and finial forms in this Wikipedia, but I cannot get these to correctly tie in with other fonts. there are a few websites that employ the character, but you can still see a distinct break :
ﯓ ﯔ ﯖ ﯕ
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Turkish_language
It is used in words like "sonra" and possessive ending "nin"
I also know that some letters in languages such as Sindhi employ additional dots- as many as 4!. It would be fantastic to have a "universal" Arabic script keyboard that can handle all of these variations, rather than have to switch between various keyboards (for example as I'm currently transcribing a Safavid letter, I have to switch between Persian and Arabic keyboards to type a ta marbuta, etc etc.)
Behnam Wrote:Oh don't worry Armeen. This is a writing abandoned by Turkish four or five generations ago and it's only a matter of interest for linguists and historians. So it's not surprising that it's not known. I posted this question here for posterity! If anyone came to enlighten us, I'd appreciate it. If not, I go with what I implemented.
My concern is just a matter of accuracy. I claimed that my fonts support Ottoman Turkish, so it should do it, no matter if anybody uses it or not.
Jemiljan,
I beleive I already made a fully functional Ottoman font. Now I'm working on its Uighur support and the new version will be ready soon. Give it a try.
http://www.irmug.org/Banner/XB_Zar_Promotion.html
But for the keyboard, I have a Kurdish keyboard having that character and an Uighur keyboard under construction.
B.
[
attachment=1]
Khayli Motshakiram Behnam,
I went to the link that you provided, but when I click on the link "Download XB ZAR Font", it just takes me to the main IRMUG portal; nothing downloads.
Will your XB font work in Microsoft Office 2004 for mac? I find that for teh most part, nothing works but in Excel, I can currently only use the "X" font series that I downloaded from an Iranian News paper site. This is very helpful to me, in creating my own personal dictionaries for new vocabulary that I'm learning as I transcribe various documents.
Selam,
Jake
Behnam Wrote:Jemiljan,
I beleive I already made a fully functional Ottoman font. Now I'm working on its Uighur support and the new version will be ready soon. Give it a try.
http://www.irmug.org/Banner/XB_Zar_Promotion.html
But for the keyboard, I have a Kurdish keyboard having that character and an Uighur keyboard under construction.
B.
Jake,
Okay the link is not working. Good to know!
But you can go here:
http://wiki.irmug.org/index.php/قلمه...خهٔ_۲
I take it you speak Persian. You don't need much anyway. Just go down the page and the new set of X Series 2 are lined-up in alphabetical order. XB Zar is the one before the last. Click on the download link (اینجا) and you should have it.
They are all with the same construction and they all support Ottoman. But XB Zar of-course is our flagship. BTW the first X Series also is my creation. Welcome to the source!
X Series 2 has AAT and OT technologies both. So they should work on any platform. Your problem with Office for Mac though is of a different nature. Office for Mac doesn't support rtl and completely useless for your use. You can use NeoOffice or OpenOffice if you want a .doc file format. You can also use Mellel or Nisus Writer which have their own formats but can export in .doc (not always reliably). But if .doc is not your concern, Mellel is very good. I heard a lot of good about Nisus Writer (pro or otherwise) as well.
Beh Do Bar khayli Motshakian Behnam!
I had used a xont series called X Badr and X Kamran- there was even an X Zar. Can't recall where I got it from- IRNA?
Just downloaded XB Zar, and like the X font series, I can use it in Excel, and it will even sort in correct alphabetical order. The B series I downloaded from the same site does not work. Not sure why these fonts series will work in Excel, but not in a table within a word doc.
howveer, i do not see how I can utilize the Ottoman nef- I need some kind of keyboard interface to use that. Have one I can download?
For my purposes, I prefer to use Excel as it is faster and I can cut and copy columns and sort them far more easily than I can in Open Office Neo. Have not used either Mellel or Nisus, though I know of them. Any experience using these cross-platform with the new PC version of Office? I would prefer to use a format that can be shared cross-platform.
Khayli Mamnunam!
Jake
Behnam Wrote:Jake,
Okay the link is not working. Good to know!
But you can go here:
http://wiki.irmug.org/index.php/قلمه...خهٔ_۲
I take it you speak Persian. You don't need much anyway. Just go down the page and the new set of X Series 2 are lined-up in alphabetical order. XB Zar is the one before the last. Click on the download link (اینجا) and you should have it.
They are all with the same construction and they all support Ottoman. But XB Zar of-course is our flagship. BTW the first X Series also is my creation. Welcome to the source!
X Series 2 has AAT and OT technologies both. So they should work on any platform. Your problem with Office for Mac though is of a different nature. Office for Mac doesn't support rtl and completely useless for your use. You can use NeoOffice or OpenOffice if you want a .doc file format. You can also use Mellel or Nisus Writer which have their own formats but can export in .doc (not always reliably). But if .doc is not your concern, Mellel is very good. I heard a lot of good about Nisus Writer (pro or otherwise) as well.
I just checked my Ottoman dictionary in Excel, and after changing the font to XB Zar, I now am able to get the Nef character to work. I had enetered a few words using teh unicode character pallete input, but they never shoed up right. Now they do! At long last I can finally render the term "At mabedliğının" ات مابدﻟﻐﯖﯔ, meaning "horse dung" correctly although this doesn't appear to show up correctly just now in this window).
I would still very much love a universal Arabic script font and keyboard that can handle all of the scripts, without having to switch keyboards. What would be really, really nifty is having it do that, as well as US diacritical extended at the same time, so I can render proper Latin transliteration standards for various scripts, whether the ğ and undotted Turkish ı, or the circumflex used for long vowels (ex: â), or dots under consonants used for Arabic, but all on one keyboard.
Thanks!
Jake
PS- For now, I would still like your Kurdish keyboard to enter these Ottoman characters in.
There is simply not enough real estate on a keyboard to handle all these languages. Your best bet is using US Extended for your combined accents and various keyboards for various languages. If you have them on the menu of the Mac, it is not difficult to switch back and forth. But you have to change the keyboard shortcut of switching keyboards in System Preferences because the original shortcut is now used for Spotlight.
Anyhow here you can find three keyboards of my making and few others.
http://www.redlers.com/downloadkeyboard.html
I'll add Uighur keyboard to that collection. Uighur and Kurdish have a commun issue with their initial vowel letters which start with a hamza. I incorporated that in the Kurdish keyboard (the letter with the shift key) and I will do the same for Uighur. For locating your characters, keep 'keyboard viewer' open. It helps a lot.
These fonts should work on Windows well.
Selam Behnam, I've been VERY happy with your keyboard and font, and find they work very well in Neo Office for Mac as well. In addition, I found that your keyboard has the izafet ha with hamza. Thanks for including this. My only complaint is aesthetic- it doesn't look the same as the documents that I'm transcribing, but I'm nevertheless very happy to have one that works.
I found this site explaining some of the issues:
http://www.laits.utexas.edu/persian/pers...hamzeh.htm
Jake
Behnam Wrote:There is simply not enough real estate on a keyboard to handle all these languages. Your best bet is using US Extended for your combined accents and various keyboards for various languages. If you have them on the menu of the Mac, it is not difficult to switch back and forth. But you have to change the keyboard shortcut of switching keyboards in System Preferences because the original shortcut is now used for Spotlight.
Anyhow here you can find three keyboards of my making and few others.
http://www.redlers.com/downloadkeyboard.html
I'll add Uighur keyboard to that collection. Uighur and Kurdish have a commun issue with their initial vowel letters which start with a hamza. I incorporated that in the Kurdish keyboard (the letter with the shift key) and I will do the same for Uighur. For locating your characters, keep 'keyboard viewer' open. It helps a lot.
These fonts should work on Windows well.